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	<title>Comments on: Torture</title>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-8758</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-8758</guid>
		<description>Brian: absolutely incredible. Oh my. Thanks, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian: absolutely incredible. Oh my. Thanks, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-8755</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-8755</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unembedded.net/main.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very strong alternative&lt;/a&gt; to the Fox-style journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.unembedded.net/main.php" rel="nofollow">very strong alternative</a> to the Fox-style journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7709</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 03:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7709</guid>
		<description>Of course, I don&#039;t blame TV the medium but it seems that many people watch poorly produced content including the crud that fox puts together.

Of course, we watch the NewsHour, Nova, Frontline and more but we&#039;re in a minority, most people watch commercial TV and a lot of it. And, when they&#039;re watching they&#039;re not reading.

The chicken-egg piece of this interests me: did the people who write and produce TV start making more crud and people got used to it or did people&#039;s ability to pay attention diminish enough so that producers and writers had to go further and further into outrageousness to get their attention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I don&#8217;t blame TV the medium but it seems that many people watch poorly produced content including the crud that fox puts together.</p>
<p>Of course, we watch the NewsHour, Nova, Frontline and more but we&#8217;re in a minority, most people watch commercial TV and a lot of it. And, when they&#8217;re watching they&#8217;re not reading.</p>
<p>The chicken-egg piece of this interests me: did the people who write and produce TV start making more crud and people got used to it or did people&#8217;s ability to pay attention diminish enough so that producers and writers had to go further and further into outrageousness to get their attention?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7707</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 23:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7707</guid>
		<description>Because I occasionally take a look at Fox, I can understand that in news terms. But there&#039;s a lot of really good TV out there, both news and public affairs, and in the entertainment and documentary areas, produced in many cases by American broadcasters.

It might be more accurate that it is the TV that people are watching, just like the &#039;red top&#039; tabloid newspapers that they are buying on this side of the world, which is the main culprit.

And for that you have to blame the choice of the people. Which echoes what you feel about the choice of government, I guess.

Don&#039;t know if we&#039;re any better over here, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because I occasionally take a look at Fox, I can understand that in news terms. But there&#8217;s a lot of really good TV out there, both news and public affairs, and in the entertainment and documentary areas, produced in many cases by American broadcasters.</p>
<p>It might be more accurate that it is the TV that people are watching, just like the &#8216;red top&#8217; tabloid newspapers that they are buying on this side of the world, which is the main culprit.</p>
<p>And for that you have to blame the choice of the people. Which echoes what you feel about the choice of government, I guess.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t know if we&#8217;re any better over here, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7706</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7706</guid>
		<description>Brian, I&#039;m well aware of our debt time bomb. Isn&#039;t it amazing how stupid Americans are. Clinton got our debt as low as it&#039;s been since we&#039;ve had debt, totally balanced the budget and made us feel fat and secure. Bush comes in and overturns all of that because Clinton was stupid enough to have a blow job in the white house.

The problem here is that the middle ground who voted for Bush because of a moral problem with Clinton was not smart enough to realize what they were getting. That&#039;s the part I&#039;m still not happy about and this I can&#039;t hold against Bush: he made very clear what he was going to do and did it. I dind&#039;t like it but the middle ground wasn&#039;t listening and voted for him anyway not really &quot;processing&quot; what he was saying about Iraq, tax cuts, and the like.

Now, they are souring on him but it&#039;s much too late. A lot of damage has been done that will take more than a single presidency to overturn. And, I&#039;m not convinced that if there were an election tomorrow the right person would run opposing him and that Americans would vote for that person.

So, you might ask what I think the cause of this decline is. IMHO the biggest contributor to the dumbing down of America is television.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, I&#8217;m well aware of our debt time bomb. Isn&#8217;t it amazing how stupid Americans are. Clinton got our debt as low as it&#8217;s been since we&#8217;ve had debt, totally balanced the budget and made us feel fat and secure. Bush comes in and overturns all of that because Clinton was stupid enough to have a blow job in the white house.</p>
<p>The problem here is that the middle ground who voted for Bush because of a moral problem with Clinton was not smart enough to realize what they were getting. That&#8217;s the part I&#8217;m still not happy about and this I can&#8217;t hold against Bush: he made very clear what he was going to do and did it. I dind&#8217;t like it but the middle ground wasn&#8217;t listening and voted for him anyway not really &#8220;processing&#8221; what he was saying about Iraq, tax cuts, and the like.</p>
<p>Now, they are souring on him but it&#8217;s much too late. A lot of damage has been done that will take more than a single presidency to overturn. And, I&#8217;m not convinced that if there were an election tomorrow the right person would run opposing him and that Americans would vote for that person.</p>
<p>So, you might ask what I think the cause of this decline is. IMHO the biggest contributor to the dumbing down of America is television.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7703</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7703</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard. I think you&#039;re right about the resonances with Watergate. Thing is, this is much worse, and so much damage has been done not only to individuals but to whole countries and to the very credibility of democracy itself, so sullied has the word become under your present administration.

And I feel that the very things that made America great, and admired as a defender of the good, have disappeared behind the clouds of war for the sake of war profits. Every good American has been damaged by your current Government&#039;s actions.

You know my feelings about this, looking in from the outside, and articulated in a post once on the Alphasmart community forum, and how saddened I am to see it.

But as a nation you have another problem, also brought on by Bush and Co to a great extent, and written very clearly in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alternet.org/story/28646/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; this Alternet post.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard. I think you&#8217;re right about the resonances with Watergate. Thing is, this is much worse, and so much damage has been done not only to individuals but to whole countries and to the very credibility of democracy itself, so sullied has the word become under your present administration.</p>
<p>And I feel that the very things that made America great, and admired as a defender of the good, have disappeared behind the clouds of war for the sake of war profits. Every good American has been damaged by your current Government&#8217;s actions.</p>
<p>You know my feelings about this, looking in from the outside, and articulated in a post once on the Alphasmart community forum, and how saddened I am to see it.</p>
<p>But as a nation you have another problem, also brought on by Bush and Co to a great extent, and written very clearly in <a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/28646/" rel="nofollow"> this Alternet post.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7605</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 16:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7605</guid>
		<description>That is a great point I hope it gives people here somthing to think about</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a great point I hope it gives people here somthing to think about</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7602</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 12:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7602</guid>
		<description>Ross: right, good points. The military would not be using torture if Rumsfeld and Ashcroft didn&#039;t approve it and recommend it and if Bush didn&#039;t have a double standard on who &quot;people&quot; are.

This is one more example on a larger scale of &quot;you&#039;re either with us or you&#039;re the enemy&quot; and if you&#039;re the enemy you&#039;re a terrorist and we torture terrorists.

I wonder how many US citizens they consider terrorists and how many US citizens are being tortured? Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist and even though we executed him, I doubt we ever tortured him to get more info on who else was involved in his plot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ross: right, good points. The military would not be using torture if Rumsfeld and Ashcroft didn&#8217;t approve it and recommend it and if Bush didn&#8217;t have a double standard on who &#8220;people&#8221; are.</p>
<p>This is one more example on a larger scale of &#8220;you&#8217;re either with us or you&#8217;re the enemy&#8221; and if you&#8217;re the enemy you&#8217;re a terrorist and we torture terrorists.</p>
<p>I wonder how many US citizens they consider terrorists and how many US citizens are being tortured? Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist and even though we executed him, I doubt we ever tortured him to get more info on who else was involved in his plot.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7597</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7597</guid>
		<description>I heard first hand the horror stories that have come out of cuba envolving the U.S. Goverment.  And not only the military but the people that control the military are involved.  What we dont understand when it comes to terrorism the United States is just as guilty as the people we are holding in Cuba right now.  We know full well that these people are just guilty of following their goverment like we are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard first hand the horror stories that have come out of cuba envolving the U.S. Goverment.  And not only the military but the people that control the military are involved.  What we dont understand when it comes to terrorism the United States is just as guilty as the people we are holding in Cuba right now.  We know full well that these people are just guilty of following their goverment like we are.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.richardsnotes.org/archives/2005/11/24/torture/comment-page-1/#comment-7588</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richardsnotes.org/?p=1850#comment-7588</guid>
		<description>Miles: It seems like it&#039;s now damaged and if memory served, the early days of Watergate looked like this too. Few took notice of Woodward and Bernstein&#039;s columns in the very early days but after a while they got traction.

Even if the current movement produces an impeachment, for me the issue is how so many Americans voted for this guy the first and second time. He uses fear and intimidation quite effectively but some of us saw through it while he was governor of Texas. How so many people bought the crap he was selling is beyond me and it does not paint a great picture of the American public.

The other related point is that this administration is out to overturn Row v Wade. Why? They believe in life. Well, what the hell are people who believe in life doing torturing people. When Bush was governor of Texas he executed more people than any governor in history. Some belief in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miles: It seems like it&#8217;s now damaged and if memory served, the early days of Watergate looked like this too. Few took notice of Woodward and Bernstein&#8217;s columns in the very early days but after a while they got traction.</p>
<p>Even if the current movement produces an impeachment, for me the issue is how so many Americans voted for this guy the first and second time. He uses fear and intimidation quite effectively but some of us saw through it while he was governor of Texas. How so many people bought the crap he was selling is beyond me and it does not paint a great picture of the American public.</p>
<p>The other related point is that this administration is out to overturn Row v Wade. Why? They believe in life. Well, what the hell are people who believe in life doing torturing people. When Bush was governor of Texas he executed more people than any governor in history. Some belief in life.</p>
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